John 17 Jesus prayer. Does Jesus only pray "for those given to Him"?

John Piper, Wayne Grudem, James White, and many more extremely influential Calvinists use John 17:9 

<<I am asking on their behalf; I am NOT asking on BEHALF of the WORLD, but on behalf of those whom you GAVE ME, because they are yours">>

They use the portion that says "I pray not on behalf of the world" to say that Jesus only ever prays for the "elect" given Him by the Father before the world was. But John 17 is a whole prayer, there is more things prayed for in John 17.

((If I was praying specific things for my wife alone. I would say "I'm praying these things for my wife, not other women" but then I went on a prayed for all other women, saying that I don't pray for other women because the first part of my prayer was for my wife, saying I don't pray for other women would be false right?))

That is what happens to John 17:9, lets look at the rest of the prayer to see if He only prays for "The elect" and not the "world"

John 17:20 “I ask NOT ONLY ON BEHALF OF THESE>> 

("THESE" are The 12 Apostles (minus Judas) who were there in the immediate context, He is only among the Apostles, the previous statements were in general, a prayer for them), (That contextual interpretation can be debated but you will loose😃😃😃)

<BUT ALSO on behalf of THOSE>> 

(making a distinction between the Apostles with Him at the moment, and the people who would come to believe, through the Apostles message)

<who will believe in me through "their word" 21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, SO THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE SENT ME>>,

(That who may believe? "THE WORLD" And what is believing in Jesus? Salvation right? Believing in Jesus is always about salvation)

<. 22 The glory that You have given Me I have given "them">>

(What Glory? The power to cast out demons, to heal, to raise the dead, to do what Jesus did and more. Do we have the Glory of the Apostles? No, so clearly the intent of the author is directing this statement directly to the Apostles with Him, how that applies to us can be discussed, but contextually that is what is happening)

<So that they may be one, as we are one,
23 I in them and you in Me, that they may become completely one,SO THAT THE WORLD MAY KNOW YOU SENT ME>>

(He prays for the Apostles, then for believers, then for the world 2 times)

<and have loved them even as you have loved Me>>. (end of prayer)

He prayed distinct things for all people. You see 2 times in John 17 Jesus goes on to pray for the "world" so when John 17:9 is quoted as a proof-text Jesus does not pray for the world, is a misinterpretation.

That is why the Scripture says "do not let many of you be teachers, for we all stumble in many ways" Because lots of people can (though well intending) have very wrong interpretations of Scripture. People need to be taught how to read Scripture like any other ancient document. You would not just pick up a old writing and take out sentences, and explain to people what the document means. So let's no do that with our most precious possession, our Bibles. -Kevin Henderson

Biblical refutation of "Limited Atonement"

      The reason why the doctrine of limited atonement is one of the most debated and contentious debates, is not because of emotion. It has been and always will be because Scripture. Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus died for the "sins" of all people. 

     Does Scripture teach Jesus died for everybody? Lets look at just one verse out of 12 that say yes He did.
"this is a trust worthy statement deserving of full acceptance, Christ came into the world to save sinners" -1 Timothy 1:15

The reason John Pipers Gospel begins with "Christ died for sinners" is because this verse. It begins with "this is a TRUSTWORTHY statement" so when Piper was asked about Limited Atonement, he was asked:"Can you tell anyone Christ died for YOU".He said;"That's not the New Testament Gospel. The New Testament Gospel is not Christ died for YOU, but Christ died for sinners"

      Now, within the same exact book of 1st timothy. 1st Timothy 4:9-10 we have the EXACT same terminology.

"9 This is a TRUSTWORTHY statement deserving of full acceptance 10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe". -1st Timothy 4:9-10
   
Also within the book of 1st Timothy we get:

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as ransom for ALL"- 1 Timothy 2:5-6


      A proper interpretive method is to interpret a verse first within the same book, (but only after you get the hermenutical context ie;. Historical context), then you broaden you theology to the rest of the Bible.Now many will say that this specific verse "who gave Himself a ransom for ALL" that this "all" means all without distinction, not all without exception. Now, even though the response "all without distinction, not all without exception" is semantically meaningless. And makes this "all" mean "some" because they mean "SOME of all kinds" which makes the term "all" meaningless.

Now, if we are to use proper interpretive methods and to be honest and submit to Scripture. We will look at how "all" is used within 1st Timothy:.

All people are either unbelievers or believers. That statement I just said can not mean "all people without distinction, not all without exception, are either unbelievers or believers".No. Clearly I am saying "ALL PEOPLE WITHOUT EXCEPTION ARE EITHER UNBELIEVERS OR BELIEVERS"

Now when 1st Timothy 4:9-10 says "who is the Savior of ALL PEOPLE especially of believers". Paul, is making the only universal distinction between unbelievers and believers, so that he can encompass all people without exception. 

So, clearly within 1st Timothy Paul means "all people" when He says "all, all men, all people" within 1st Timothy. 

Back to my initial point. Because 1 Timothy 1:15 says "this is a TRUSTWORTHY statement deserving of full acceptance, Christ died to save sinners" since we take that strongly and hold it with force because of the force with which Paul uses TRUSTWORTHY. We need to be consistent and also believe that it is just as TRUSTWORTHY and deserving of full acceptance that Jesus is the Savior of all people especially of believers" as it says in 1st tim 4:9-10 in the same book, with the same writer, with the same force. 
And the reason being He is the savior of ALL PEOPLE is because He gave Himself as a RANSOM FOR ALL, meaning He died for the sins of ALL, Like John 1:12 says, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of "the world" 

This does not necessitate universalism, it only necessitates that Jesus died for the sins of all people, and if you believe He rose from the dead and confess Him as Lord you will be saved.Jesus died for YOUR sins, believe and be ye saved.

Mormon beliefs Christian Apologetics.

   An Outline on LDS

Basic LDS apologetics/evangelism

1. What do Mormons believe about Jesus?

           1. Mormons have a very different view about Jesus but they affirm basic things Christians do.

                  a) LDS believe Jesus is the Son of God.

                  b) LDS believe Jesus was crucified for our sins.

                  c) LDS believe that Jesus rose from the grave.

                 

           2. What are the distinctives that separate them from being Christians?

                 a) LDS believe Jesus is the brother of Lucifer.

                 b) LDS do not believe Jesus is the only son of God there are many sons of God like Jesus.

                 c) LDS do not affirm Jesus as being equally God as the Father.

                d) LDS deny the Trinity.

                 e) LDS do not believe Jesus was from eternity uncreated.

                 f) LDS believe Jesus is the literally only begotten son of God the Fathers seed.

        

            3. What do LDS believe about God?

         (though the standard Mormon who knocks at your door doesn’t know these things his elders do. These are things    that should not be brought up while evangelizing a Mormon)

                 a) While they affirm there is only one God what they mean is there is only one God for this world.

                 b) LDS believe there are many gods.

                 c) LDS believe in eternal progression that they will become gods of there own worlds.

                 d) LDS believe the heavenly father "Elohim" has a body of flesh and blood like us.

                 e) LDS believe God was once a man like us and progressed to God hood.

                

1. What do LDS believe about the Bible?

 1. Mormons are beginning to defend their faith using the Bible.

      a) Mormons believe in the Bible as far "as it is translated correctly".

      b) Mormons do not believe the Bible is inerrant.

      c) Mormons do not believe it is the final Word of God.

      d) They believe "The Book of Mormon" is the final testament of Christ.

2. What kind of typical conversations will you have with a Mormon.

      a) They will speak of LDS being the "one true Church"

      b) They will speak of the Gospel being restored by Joseph Smith.

      c) They will speak of the priesthood being restored.

      d) They will not be confronting or on the offence.

      e) They will try to convince you they are Christians just a different denomination.

       f) They will talk about "The Gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ".

      g) They will tell you to pray and ask God if the LDS is the one true Church, you will feel a burning in you stomach.

Example of a apologetic

Problem: They are beginning to use the Bible much more and having answers for their faith. They are being able to predict what a Christian will say to them. They have standard answers for many of our arguments. We must take this matter in a extremely spiritual way beyond academic study. We must be full of the Spirit of God.

The academic problem is what they believe about the Bible. "its true as far as it is translated correctly" Therefore if something contradicts the Book of Mormon they can brush it of as a mistranslation. I have had that happen many times. For instance when you quote verses that proclaim the LORD is God and there is no other (Isaiah 44:6, Duet 4:35, psalm 86:10) They will respond that what it means is "the only God for this world"

Solution: In saying you desire to be like Christ you have to say Jesus believed the Torah was the perfect Word of God and not one jot or title would pass away. Therefore giving credence to the Torah. You must have some knowledge of the transmission  and preservation of the Bible. But Christ Himself says Heaven and earth will pass away but His Words will never pass away. (Matt:24-35 Luke 21:33) denoting the truth of the New Testament.

In truth Mormonism is Gnosticism with different terms.

The main focus about evangelizing a Mormon is recognizing the presence of God. While you speak acknowledge the Lord. Mormonism is demonic. Any faith saying the same lie Satan did in the garden "ye will be as gods" is demonic. The difference between JW's who use the Bible, and Mormons who use the Bible, is that we have the Spirit of God, who quickens our mind, and puts a blade on our words. Have a strong desire to prophecy even just in conversation so that the secrets of their heart is revealed and they will be cut to the heart and acknowledge God is with you (1 Corinthians 14:1, 14:24)

{HERE IS A EXAMPLE YOU CAN TAKE WHEN EVANGELIZING MORMONS)

We are told we need to defend the faith and preach the Gospel.

  

Theres good methods where you can guide the conversation to the Gospel.

Example #1 Say you work with a Mormon and sometimes you guys speak on spiritual matters.

One simple direct way to lead a conversation to the Gospel is simple asking "what is the Gospel?" to the Mormon you work with. Chances are he will speak of Joseph Smith restoring the Church and the priesthood.

Then you, as a Christian can say "well, for us our Gospel stems from 1 Corinthians 15. You should have this memorized and on the tip of your tongue always this is our foundation.

1 Corinthians 15:

Now I would remind you, brothers,1 of the gospel gI preached to you, which youreceived, hin which you stand, 2 and by which iyou are being saved, if you jholdfast to the word I preached to you—kunless you believed in vain.

3 For lI delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ diedmfor our sins nin accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raisedoon the third day pin accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that qhe appeared to Cephas,then rto the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time,most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared tosJames, then tto all the apostles. 8

From <https://www.esv.org/1+Corinthians+14/>

Since now you are leading the conversation you can say why this is so important to Christians and all men. This is the Gospel and it is the power of God for salvation. If the conversation keeps going you should show them why the importants of this Gospel, the Life, Death Burial and Resurrection is central to all men. By memorizing and sighting Romans 1:16

Romans 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

From <https://www.blueletterbible.org/esv/rom/1/1/s_1047001>